Ep 149: Sasha Ogden Designs a Hat from River Mitts
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Katie Rempe: [00:00:00] Welcome back to Knit a Spell everyone. I am your host Katie Rempe and today I am joined by my friend and fellow magical maker, Sasha Ogden.
Sasha: I'm so happy to be here.
Katie Rempe: She's a knitter, crocheter, spinner, you divine, you do it all, and own your own yarn store, skeinshop.com Today, we're talking about a very exciting project, how she adapted, these river mitts. Maybe you've heard of them into an amazing hat. And we're going to talk about the magic of creating problem solving and the approach that she used to adapt this pattern into a brand new object. It's a mix of magic and fiber. I think you'll love it. So let's dive in.
Sasha: Yeah.
Katie Rempe: Light from Lantern Presents Knit a spell. I'm your host, Katie Repi, designer Knit Witch, and your companion in this [00:01:00] magical making podcast Together, let's explore the enchanted world where knitting meets the magic of the craft.
River Mitts Appeal
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Katie Rempe: Okay, so, first of all, talked about this before, you've knit the river mitts, what do you enjoy about that pattern in particular?
Sasha: Oh my gosh, there's so much because it's such a good pattern. I love the simplicity of it. Like, that, I think, is really the heart of the river mitts, is that they are so versatile, so wearable, and yet so simple to knit. It's just knits and purls.
There's not a bunch of shaping. There's no thumb gusset. It's like, Just chill start to finish.
Katie Rempe: It's like a tube sock. No heels, no toes, no gusset, no problems, just one little Tiny technique that sets it apart from the rest.
Adapting Into a Hat
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Katie Rempe: What inspired you to then adapt it [00:02:00] into a hat? Yes. What?
Sasha: I'm like, Do I need two? And then I decided, Yes! I need two for morale. But this year I'm really trying to focus on knitting down my stash. Not because I think I have too much yarn or it's like stressing me out, but just because I have a lot of really beautiful yarns and I, I want to knit with them.
So I'm, I'm trying to be really mindful of stopping there first and seeing if there's anything that I had especially putting a focus on my hand spun because I have so much hand spun, especially from when I was first learning that I just kind of, I made it. I didn't have a project in mind, so I just put it in the stash and was like, I'll figure it out later.
So I pulled out some spindle spun yarn for the knit along that I was like, Oh, you know, this is frankly not really up to my standards anymore. But I think such a simple pattern will be really forgiving of like, Oh, some parts are [00:03:00] a little thicker. Some parts are a little thinner. And when I was done, not only did I love working with those yarns and.
I want to have a whole sidebar about how you should use your beginner yarns. But I loved the color combo. I was just like, I wasn't ready for the project to be over. And so I was like, Oh, I still have yarn left. I might have enough for a hat. And wouldn't it be cool to have a matching set? And then I started thinking.
I'm a knitter. like I knit a lot. And, like, I look forward to fall every year. I'm like, oh yeah, the hand knits are coming out, getting my scarves, getting my hats. I don't have anything that matches. In fact, I hardly have stuff that, like, looks like it could go together, because I just make whatever makes my heart happy.
And my heart has a lot of things that it finds joy in. So I thought, I want a hat and hand warmers. That match.
Katie Rempe: [00:04:00] Oh, okay.
Use Your Beginner Sprinning Yarn
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Katie Rempe: What is the sidebar now that we're here
Sasha: Yes.
Katie Rempe: using your beginner yarns? You're talking about the beginning yarns from learning how to spin, right?
Sasha: Learning how to spin. Yeah. So a lot of people when they first start spinning they go, oh, this is too lumpy to use or it's too dense or there's not enough yardage or, and I, I get all of that. I have been where you are. But there are two reasons to use your beginner yarns right now as soon as you make them.
And those are, number one, you will improve so much faster when you know what your yarns are like, what you like about them, what you don't like about them. I know the minute that I started using my yarns, I was like, oh, I want more plying twist in this. And then I started putting more ply twist in my yarns because you have that control when your hand's spinning.
So you're really holding your, yourself and your skills back by not using what you make. The other thing is that lumpy yarn that there's not very much yardage of that you're like, oh, this is [00:05:00] horrible. It actually probably looks way better. I, I have been really, really surprised at how inconsistent yarn can still make a very cohesive looking finished product.
I, I remember when I was starting this knit along for the River Mitts I sent a picture of the yarn to Katie and I went, we're just going to be embracing the texture and embracing the unevenness. And you can't really tell. I think that that will also help you realize as a beginner spinner that I mean, certainly strive to improve your skills, make exactly the yarn that you want to make, but it doesn't have to be perfect to make really wonderful things, to behave just as well or better than yarn you could buy in a store.
And, as a really fun experiment, I encourage all of you to go to your stash, find some commercial yarn that you love, cut off, a yard, and take it apart, like take the plies apart, and [00:06:00] look at them, and, just notice, like, how consistent are those singles, really? Because,
Katie Rempe: Not as consistent as you might think.
Sasha: maybe not as consistent as you might think, and part of the way that you get more consistency, both as a commercial mill and as a hand spinner, this is just the nature of yarn, is the more plies, the more those uneven spots.
work themselves out. The more they distribute and the thin spot ends up next to the thick spot and then it's the same as everywhere else. Also there's a physics thing about how yarns that are higher than two ply like spiral around kind of an invisible core and the thickness can kind of take up some of that invisible space in the middle.
Which is why you see so many commercial yarns that are three plies and four plies and even far more plies than that. Once you really start taking them apart, you might find that, Oh, I thought this was a four ply, but each of the plies is actually made up of two smaller plies!
Katie Rempe: Yes. Great point. Yeah.
Sasha: all of that [00:07:00] helps mask inconsistencies. So, do a little science. Do a little experimenting.
Katie Rempe: Give yourself some grace. Again, like, this idea of perfection, that you have to be immediately good at the new craft that you're starting, is absurd. Like, embrace the process. If you wanted it to look a certain way, you could just buy it already that way. But like, what's the fun in that, right? That's why we're choosing to make ourselves.
Sasha: Absolutely.
Katie Rempe: the version I knit, cause we kind of shared those patterns so that I was like, well, I need one. I also used stash yarn. Now this was not hand spun yarn from me but somebody spun it, right? I also used a yarn that had, it's a one ply and like a bit of a thick and thin that I didn't realize until I started casting it on.
And I was like, what is, what is up with this yarn? And just like you said, especially with the ribbing pattern, you really don't notice it overall. It just [00:08:00] blends it. It becomes the fill only you know, and you know, again, maybe that's part of the magic is, you know, that it wasn't perfect, but the people who are looking at your finished object are going to be like, Oh my gosh, amazing.
Sasha: believe you
Katie Rempe: this.
Sasha: that, you're so skillful.
Katie Rempe: Right. And from what I understand of spinning, which is very little because I don't do it myself, even though I tried still have the patience. It's more difficult over time to get that sort of like art yarn thick and thin inconsistency because you train yourself to do more consistent, more to your taste level, so.
Sasha: Yeah.
Katie Rempe: being some of like your most unique stash in the end.
Sasha: It does require a whole different level of skill to do thick and thin on purpose and really train your hands to be inconsistent in that way.
Katie Rempe: now that we've had our little sidebar about using your stash, which use your [00:09:00] stash.
Sasha: Use your
Katie Rempe: bought it
Sasha: stash!
Katie Rempe: like whether it's fiber or whatever, use it, find a reason to use it.
Design Challenges
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Katie Rempe: Were there any unexpected design challenges as you were transforming this pattern from mitts to hat?
Sasha: Well, yes and no. I will say, once I had the design in my mind, it came out pretty easily the way that I had envisioned it, but I spent some time, Maybe three days, kind of, just going with, Oh, would I want it to be like this? Or like this? Or like this? Or like this? Because I, I had to really think about, What was it that I loved about the River Mitts?
And how could I preserve those feelings, those aesthetics, in a hat? Because part of what I loved was the, the double cuff. And the way that the second cuff kind of scrunches up and stands away from the first cuff. And that's hard because, like, on your hand you have your thumb. Your thumb helps make that habit.
On your head,
Katie Rempe: Yeah.
Sasha: thumbs [00:10:00] on your head.
Katie Rempe: You don't?
Sasha: I mean, I don't. If you, if you have thumbs on your head, it's okay.
Katie Rempe: Yeah.
Sasha: Maybe this is a great hat for you. I don't know.
So I was thinking a lot about, like, how deep did I want the double cuff to be? What did I want the crown and the decreases to look like? And so, spoiler alert, I opted for what I consider kind of a more architectural look at the top. The decreases form just four lines. It's a square instead of, I, if I'm on autopilot when I make a hat I do a spiral at the top.
Katie Rempe: Oh,
Sasha: I thought that that really tied in well with the simplicity of, like, the arm of the Rivermitts, just kind of being straight and smooth. I didn't want to introduce round shapes right at the end. I felt like that, that wasn't the mood. I will say I had in my head how I thought it would look when I wore it and how I would style it and like, you know, scrunch the [00:11:00] brims around different ways.
And when I put it on. It didn't really behave the way that I thought it would. I love it, I think it's really cute, but in my head, the outer brim was scrunchier, like, could bunch up and look cute, like, like slouchy socks, right? But in reality, when I tried to do that, it was like, would you like, like a weird ridge in various chunks of your head?
So yeah, a little bit of adaptation in how to wear it, how to style it, but
Katie Rempe: just goes to show you that even designers who have it thought out, mull about it for quite a while, have done a similar sort of a thing, it still surprises us in the end, and that's not always a bad thing. Yeah.
Sasha: no, it's not. There's something so magical, ooh, magical, about making something new. This hat has never existed before. So I'm getting to learn about it as I'm making [00:12:00] it and going, Oh, how does it act? The more you knit, the better you get at making educated guesses and good predictions.
it doesn't mean that you get everything right the first try.
Hat Reveal!
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Katie Rempe: you want to show it off
Sasha: I do want to show it off.
Katie Rempe: it?
Sasha: going to start by putting on one of these river mitts so that you can see the vibes of the pair that made me go, okay, I need this on my head. So here are my river mitts and the inner yarn kind of stripes, kind of morals. It's random. It was made from, I was carrying. a line of fiber that had like a bunch of different colors and they had sent me like a tiny tuft of every color and then they stopped making it.
So I had to stop carrying it. I was like, what am I going to do with all of these samples? So I just spun them completely randomly, did not. like pick, like, you know, just pulled one out of the bag and that was the next one. Which made for a really wild yarn.[00:13:00]
So,
Katie Rempe: I thought it was a striping yarn that you just like had.
Sasha: So maybe don't, don't tell all your secrets on the internet. Here's the, here's the inside of the other one. You can see that the, the stripes are different sizes, different colors. So, dun da da da da, the moment we've all been waiting for,
Katie Rempe: Yes.
Sasha: here's the hat!
Katie Rempe: Oh. my gosh.
Sasha: You can see the ribbing goes all the way up to where the crown decreases start, and the inner cuff also goes all the way up.
So you have, it's really warm because you have two full layers. And actually how I have it folded up right now, this is one of my favorite ways to wear it, is with the outer one kind of cuffed, more of like a traditional hat look. And then the inner one is like, you're wearing a slouchy beanie and then you put another hat on top of it, which is like, that's the mood, that's what I wanted.
So I feel like that's what the river mitts give me, are like, I'm wearing like a favorite [00:14:00] sweatshirt underneath that has a hole for the um, and then I. you know, pulled another cuff on to stay warm. So
Katie Rempe: Oh my gosh. Okay, so now I'll show off.
Sasha: yeah, show me yours.
Katie Rempe: able to accomplish on mine. You are the fastest knitter in this room. So, and people who've seen me knit, no, I'm not like no slouch, you know? But so this,
Sasha: Oh, I love that color combo.
Katie Rempe: isn't it great? It, again, this was also like. A struggle because this is stash yarn, right?
And I loved how yours had this surprise of like all of these stripey colors under here that you could choose to reveal or not as much as you want. And I just thought that was so great. After doing stash diving, I had this Wunderclex, which is a shuffle yarn, and then this also, shuffle yarn, this is albino, this is a wool
Sasha: I love Albino.
Katie Rempe: Yeah,
Sasha: it has such a good texture.
Katie Rempe: it does. And [00:15:00] it was, the one that I mentioned, has that a bit of a thick and thin feel because it's a one ply. So, embracing it, it's okay that, you know, this inner one is a nylon wool versus this one being a wool and linen. still work together, and actually makes this albino a lot more wearable, I think, because it's a little bit on the scratchier side, it's a little more of a rough texture, which gives it amazing stitch definition, but like, right against your ear might be sensitive, if that's the way
Sasha: And this is a great pattern to use something that you want next to your skin for the inner one and something maybe a little stronger on the outside.
Katie Rempe: it just came together so great.
Sasha: I want to say two more things about the hat quick. Number one, I want to show off my decreases so we can,
Katie Rempe: I love it. I love this square. It's a, like you said, it's a great shape. It stands up really nice. Smart.[00:16:00]
Sasha: the linearness of it pairs nicely with the ribbing and matches the vibe. The other thing that I want to point out is that when adapting this, when you do the river mitt, You're knitting them this way, and then you do Katie's really brilliant split thing to make your outer flap, right?
And I thought about that. I thought about going crown down, but part of what I wanted to do was use up my yarn. And I didn't know how much of the inner yarn I had left, so I thought, Oh, well, I, I want to do the ribbing first. So, so mine is worked from the bottom up, and then you join your two. together instead of splitting them, and I think it's a clever adaptation, if I say so myself. There's different ways to get this double cuff, which is so integral to the River Mitts look,
Katie Rempe: I didn't even think about that. But yes, of course, you're right. It's the opposite direction,
Sasha: mm hmm.
Katie Rempe: Even though they're both made from the bottom up, the way that they're connected, [00:17:00] I dare say this is way easier than doing my method.
Collaborations
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Katie Rempe: So a note about this, Sasha and I are friends. We collaborate, we have this very open design relationship and everything. And so for her to take this pattern and run with it in her adaptation, I love that. Like it didn't bother me. If anything, I kept thinking like, well how would I have done that?
And it was different. Like I would not have designed it with. Such a long brim. I probably would have just done like something puny And I think in the end that it is way better Like it makes it with the super long brim because it offers so much versatility And it's so fun.
So we are Fine with those types of things. I can't say that every designer would be like, yeah No, go and you know adapt my pattern into a new thing But like it's it ends up being [00:18:00] different because guess what? I don't know if you know this Sasha, but we're different
Sasha: This
Katie Rempe: Yeah, we can both
Sasha: is news to me!
Katie Rempe: and have different ways of thinking. There is no one way. We all inspire each other. And I think that's really part of the magic.
Sasha: It's such a good point about adaptation and collaboration and ethics. Because as makers, like, we, with great power comes great responsibility.
Katie Rempe: Sure.
Sasha: We are capable of making all kinds of things. And for me and my sensibilities, if somebody loves one of my patterns and wants to adapt it into something else, especially if like, I just wanted to make one, I just wanted like a cool scarf to go with that hat or whatever.
Awesome. Great. Use those skills. Show me pictures. I'll cheer you on. It's when there's, like, publication and money exchange that it starts getting a little
We're just, we're
Katie Rempe: complicated.
Sasha: We're a community, and it's [00:19:00] good to keep community vibes positive and supportive, and just respect people and their different boundaries, because different people have Different people are different! It's I feel like I'm repeating you now. That aside, though, I want to circle back to when we were collaborating on the Count Your Blessings cowl and how our design brains work differently.
And that was so cool. That's the first time that I've ever done, like, a really collaborative design with somebody. I've done collaborative designing where, like, somebody else will kind of brain dump at me and go, Wouldn't it be cool if there were a thing that was like this and this and this? And I go, oh yeah, I can totally write up something like that.
And then I go home, by myself, and I make the thing, and go, ta da! But with Count Your Blessings, we were really going back and forth together and going, well, do you think it should be long, or short, or tall, or bobbles all the way around, or not, or, like,
Katie Rempe: 800 bubbles or [00:20:00] no? Yeah.
Sasha: Right, as I'm, like, knitting the sample of the first version, and I'm emailing Katie and going, This sucks. I don't want to knit the rest of this.
Katie Rempe: yes. A good sign that other people won't want to ity either.
New Design Process
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Sasha: So it's just, it's so cool to get to get inside of somebody else's brain a little bit and see like, how does your thought process work?
How do you start your design? Where does, your process start, Katie? When you're starting a design, what do you do first?
Katie Rempe: That's a great question. I have an idea, especially now that I you know, like when I first started designing, I didn't really have a lens, I just did stuff that like when I was working at the yard store, someone might mention like, kind of like you were saying like, Oh, I wish there was something like this.
And I'd be like, okay, well, let's see if we can do that. But it wasn't like, intentional necessarily. And so now that my patterns are more magically minded, [00:21:00] my ideas usually come from like, what if there was a design that could help you make friends? Like, what
Sasha: Um, I love that.
Katie Rempe: so many variations of what it could be physically. because like you said, I could give you that, what would a design be that could help you make friends? And then we could not talk to each other for a month and come back hundred percent.
It will be different. If it was exactly the same, that would be a hell of a thing.
Sasha: That would be so freaky as
love the idea that you're starting from and like an idea of what do I want this to do for me versus like. I need a hat.
Katie Rempe: Yeah, right. Well, sometimes it does, Generally, when I do that, it's sort of like, Okay, [00:22:00] well then, what does this hat, like, why am I making this hat?
Sasha: Yeah.
Katie Rempe: because a hat?
Sasha: What is the t loss of the hat?
Katie Rempe: That's right!
Sasha: Yeah, I am, I am not so philosophical with my design process. So lately I've been trying to do some more designs to support sales of yarn that I carry in the shop, which look out for that. I've got several things in the work coming up. And so I'm starting from the yarn and I'm looking at the yarn and I'm going, what is going to show this yarn off to its best potential?
What is going to make this yarn like the perfect choice for this thing rather than just a choice?
LYS Insider Selling Secrets!
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Katie Rempe: Yes. that's what people want, I find. You know, it's our jobs to make the project enticing, no matter what your angle is that you're going for. Having worked at a yarn store, used to do that too. Like, will show this off to its best advantage? Because [00:23:00] people will see it and be like, what though?
What do I make out of this? And if you have a sample made out of it, that is what they will make and in that color, which
Sasha: In that color. in that color. Oh, I got so tired when I,
Katie Rempe: you always make it in the one you have the most of and the ugliest color because
Sasha: yes,
Katie Rempe: to sell pretty colors.
Sasha: yes, 100%. I was just about to say I got so tired of when I worked at a brick and mortar and I was knitting a lot of their samples, like always the brown green. It's like, why, why does this color even exist? And now I'm like making a thing. That I want people to imagine themselves wearing it and then it would sell out because that's what people saw.
They're like, I want to make
Katie Rempe: Yes. That, because that is clearly successful. I think we've talked about this before.
Sasha: Yeah
Katie Rempe: why can't people see it in another color? And it's because they're already in love with it in that color.
Color Selection Tip
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Sasha: Can I tell you my favorite [00:24:00] trick for fooling brains into getting past the picture on the pattern
Katie Rempe: Ooh, yes!
Sasha: is
Katie Rempe: tips!
Sasha: The old school is to run it off in black and white, and then like literally just sit people down with colored pencils and crayons and say like, what color would you like to imagine it?
The, the newer way you could probably like Photoshop it
Katie Rempe: It's more Engaging when you're still doing pen and paper or whatever, you know, physically writing something, drawing something.
Sasha: Especially like things with stripes or things with like a color motif like, sometimes they can imagine changing the background color, but then they're like, oh, but the pink wouldn't look good against. The yellow that I want to make it out of and I'm like, okay, what if the pink weren't pink though?
So so coloring it in really like seemed to give people permission to envision it different ways
Katie Rempe: That's a great tip.
Double Layer Brainstorm
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Katie Rempe: Now that we have mitts, and a hat, with this cool double cuff brim situation. What other things could [00:25:00] we design that would have this similar feature? Hmm. That's
Sasha: about slouchy socks, or like when I was like, I wish it had a slouchy sock vibe. So I mean like in that way that the 80s are kind of coming back around, I could see Like, maybe not 100 percent River Mitts vibes, because I think I would want, like, maybe brioche to, like, really get the dimensionality, and, like, a really satisfying scrunchy slouch.
But then you could have that, like, leg warmer, double cuff slouch sock look, with just one foot in your shoe, rather than having, like, the layers.
Katie Rempe: Love that.
Sasha: Let's see, what else could we do? Obviously, like, sweater cuff, if you were knitting a sweater and you love your river mitts, you could just, like, pop a river mitt finish onto any long sleeve sweater.
Katie Rempe: Not only a knitting pattern, right. That maybe just has whatever cuff you can put this in there, but like, let's say you just [00:26:00] have, know, a fabric. Sweatshirt and you make the bold decision to cut that cuff off You can poke your knitting needle inside the fabric. It will hold up I mean, maybe you want to do like a quick line of sewing, but even then I think it would probably be fine And then you can just knit it off of that.
So you have like a little bit of a combo style
Sasha: Number one, I love that, and I need to go through my clothes and see if there's something that I want to try that way. Number two, it reminded me of something, a picture that I saw, I was like in undergrad, and clearly it has stuck with me because I'm about to tell you about it. Somebody made the most amazing shoes.
They took, like, just kind of plain high heels from the thrift store and poked holes just above the sole, like, in the upper all the way around, picked up stitches, and then, like, knit a little booty cover for them. So you had, like, these knit booty high heels. They were so cute. [00:27:00] Oh my gosh.
Katie Rempe: okay. Well, I expect you to start these over the summer Very cool.
Sasha: Let's see other places to put double cuffs. Ah, well your, your turtlenecks, you, I think last time we talked, you talked about how when you were in fashion school, you had a turtleneck era.
Katie Rempe: Everything had a friggin stand up collar, stovepipe, something or other. Yes, I was obsessed.
Sasha: Well,
Katie Rempe: wear them, though, which is funny, but like, maybe this way. You know, knitted, it's a little different. It's not like, choking you. And if you have the two, you can kind of, again, do that like, scrunchy, slouchy, pull it over the
Sasha: well,
Katie Rempe: did it like, really wide. Oh,
Sasha: like, I could see like a turtleneck or even like a mock turtleneck and then like a cow neck, kind of like on this one. So you have like one drapey and one.
Katie Rempe: see, again, there is the limit does not exist. That's fun. [00:28:00] Yeah. I didn't think about making one like much wider because why not? well, in that case, I mean, you could make it into like a funky little skirt. If you're a person who likes to wear a knit skirt
Sasha: Ooh!
Katie Rempe: you know, the pencil tight underneath, and then
Sasha: Mm hmm.
Katie Rempe: like, even a different fiber or um, all together.
It could be like a lacier version so that there's like flow and you can maybe see through it. You do some lace work intentionally to like work the two colors together.
Sasha: Mm hmm. Now I'm imagining, what if there were like a pencil skirt under, and then on the overlay or like, yeah, maybe, maybe something lacy, but like, on a crinoline, so it sticks out, like, tutu y almost,
Katie Rempe: Oh
Sasha: have the pencil skirt coming out of the bottom. I would wear that.
Katie Rempe: my gosh. I never wanted to knit a skirt until now, and now we have many versions of the skirt that I want to knit.
Sasha: Every time [00:29:00] I talk to you, my list just gets longer.
Deciding When A Pattern is Ready
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Katie Rempe: So. are designing a knitting pattern. We have all these ideas. When do you decide a pattern is done and ready
Sasha: Oh, this is so hard because my little perfectionist brain always wants to like, just, just like one more better or like, oh, I could add this variation because in my mind, like I'm always thinking about variations and what I would do differently the next time. And I want to communicate that to people.
I want to go, if you don't like it exactly like this, it doesn't have to be exactly like this. You could do it this way, or this way, or this way, but like, that's actually not a good pattern. That's really overwhelming for people and not what they're looking for from a knitting pattern most of the time.
Katie Rempe: I have also learned this, that making all options available and everything okay is not okay for people which is fine because then I had a friend who told me, you're just designing eight patterns in [00:30:00] one pattern, them eight separate patterns. So really Sasha, you're just designing a line, a cohesive line of patterns.
Sasha: book!
Katie Rempe: An ebook. Yes. A whole genre of the evolution of one idea. And how fun is that, huh?
Sasha: Well, and didn't pardon me if I'm remembering this incorrectly, but didn't you actually split one of your patterns that you published, was it the moon and sunshall, or was it ship to shore, that you ended up splitting the big version and the little version into two standalone patterns? Because they were different enough, it really made more sense to present them that way.
Katie Rempe: Yes, both.
Sasha: Both. Ha ha
Simple Patterns Are Wanted
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Sasha: I'm in the middle of a bit of a paradigm shift of how I think about my designing and my pattern writing and what is and isn't worth publishing because for the longest time, I. only published patterns that I personally would be [00:31:00] happy to pay for. And that doesn't mean that future patterns won't be high quality.
What that means is, I tend not to buy a pattern if I look at the pattern picture and go, I can make something kind of like that. Sometimes I run into problems trying to follow other people's patterns because our gauge is just too different or they don't use the increases that I like and then when I try to put the increases that I like in, then it's not, like, lining up quite right and if I had just done it from scratch myself from the start, I would have been happy and it would have been smooth sailing.
So that's what I tend to do. to do on a personal level. So if I'm going to, for myself, buy a pattern, it's usually because there's some really interesting piece of design to it that I can't immediately look and go, I know how they did that. And so that's what I was publishing. And it turns out that that's not what most people want to buy because a lot of people aren't.
looking to be highly technical knitters like that. They are knitting more to relax. They maybe don't have the years of experience [00:32:00] and the design skills under their belt to look at pictures and go, I can make that. So I'm trying to see my simpler ideas as still worth publishing. Even though it is not a document that maybe I would personally want, that sounds wrong.
Gosh, this is, this is coming across really weird, I think.
Katie Rempe: No, I totally understand what you're saying. not everything you design is for you.
Sasha: Yeah. Absolutely.
Katie Rempe: maybe like 80 percent of the people that I used to get when I worked at the yarn store wanted like, The easy, simple, basic pattern. We are experts comparatively in the field.
So they don't even think about the stuff that we're thinking like, well, it's gotta be all of these things because it's. 8 like, which also I'm sorry to tell people is not a lot of money for the hours and hours of [00:33:00] work that even the most simple of patterns takes because you still have to write it, put it online, take pictures, all that stuff and all takes time. So the fact that it's still like 8 or 10 is a great bargain.
Sasha: Absolutely.
Katie Rempe: that being said, like. There's a lot of freedom in a simple pattern, like these river mitts, you know? Ultimately, only really
Sasha: Okay.
Katie Rempe: to, you know, take a chance, redo it fine. You know, it's about the journey for you.
Sasha: Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. [00:34:00] Hello. Hello.
Katie Rempe: that is offered for people who are looking for that. Nobody's forcing anyone to buy a pattern
Sasha: That's true. I just, especially as I've been working on patterns for Skein Shop and making this hat, like this hat, oh my gosh, even just last year, I would have been like, I'm not going to write the pattern out for the, why would I write the pattern for this hat?
Have you made a hat before? Great. Look at this hat. Make the hat.
Katie Rempe: and then the first question they would say is But what's it made out of? How many stitches has it done? I don't know how to do that top part. What is that even called?
Sasha: The good news is that from writing, really weird technical patterns. I like to think that I write an extremely clear and accessible simple pattern.
Katie Rempe: You're not overlooking the small details, which is something I tend to do because I just assume you'll know to put [00:35:00] all the stitches evenly on double pointed needles if you choose to use them. Like, I forget people still like, when you tell them how to do certain things that maybe they just never have Thought of on their own and don't
and that's fine.
Sasha: To quote my father, we're all born ignorant. So, it's, it's okay. You have to learn everything at some point.
And it's, it's really easy to forget and overlook that, like, I learned to join in the round and not twist things when I was six.
Katie Rempe: Yeah, Jim was always my best reminder of I'm not paying attention to the little details or explaining the small things.
What the hell is a notion??
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Katie Rempe: He'd be like, well, what is it? What does a notion even mean? Like, what does the word notion mean? And I was like, hmm. You know, I never read about it. It's just the little
Sasha: and actually, that's a really juicy question of, like, what are notions? How big is something before it's no longer a notion? I'm sorry, I'm ready to like have that whole conversation with you.
Katie Rempe: Why aren't needles notions? Are [00:36:00] they? A crochet hook could be a notion if you're not using it to crochet.
Sasha: Right?
Katie Rempe: But what,
Sasha: like, blocking wires? Blocking wires don't fit in my notions bag. Are they a notion?
Katie Rempe: yes, is there a size requirement? We want to know if you're watching and listening, please reach out and let us know what you think.
Sasha: Give us your personal definition for notion.
Hex Cloth Pattern Update
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Katie Rempe: We want to talk about our hex shawls?
Sasha: I'm, I'd be,
Katie Rempe: cloth.
Sasha: I blocked it and everything. Katie, here's the thing. I have gotten so much better about like weaving in my ends in a timely fashion, but. I still put off some finishing work sometimes. So I was like, Oh gosh, I've got to block this so that I can show it to Katie tomorrow.
And I ended up blocking one, two, three, four, five, five things yesterday because there might have been a little bit of a queue.
Katie Rempe: way to use that motivation.
Sasha: So
Katie Rempe: Okay. Ooh. Is it brown? Is it [00:37:00] green?
Sasha: it is brown. It is like a really light brown gray. I wanted a very neutral color. So that the color wouldn't be a factor in any readings that I use it for. So I wanted something just kind of grounded, neutral, a good base.
Katie Rempe: As opposed to the one that I did initially, which is the neon yellow. My second one was in a, what I thought was more neutral color. Blue!
Sasha: That's beautiful!
Katie Rempe: what did you think of knitting then? You said you knit it in a weekend,
Sasha: I did.
Katie Rempe: quick. Wow.
Sasha: Yes stress knitting is my superpower. The more stressed I am, the more I knit. .
what did I think of knitting this? I loved it. It was So fun, because since it's from the centre out, the first rounds go really fast and you're, like, having so much fun.
And [00:38:00] then at the end, they're long, but it never gets crazy long. It's never, like, a slog to get around. And there's more variation towards the end, so you're, like, looking forward to getting to the next fun thing.
Katie Rempe: Yes.
Sasha: I loved it, and I love this bind off that you chose,
Katie Rempe: Isn't it fun?
Sasha: it's so fun and it is really effective.
I've done other Pico bind offs that just make me want to like stab my eyes out. And this one, like, you get plenty of that good Bumpy stuff, and I will admit, I did not get my blocking wires out for this, so not all picots are alike.
I just put some pins in it, and then my cat pulled half of them out, so, you know, adaptation!
Katie Rempe: Roll with it!
Sasha: these picots did not make me crazy, and I think they're really lovely.
Katie Rempe: I love Pico bind offs and cast ons, but agree that it's like, you know, I mean it's like doing many rows in the last or first bit, so it can be a little [00:39:00] tedious, and then the blocking is also tedious, if you want it to be like, really pronounced. I can't remember now where I found this bind off, but I'm sure I'll note it in the pattern. But it was listed as like, a simple Pico and I was like, tell me more, because my first sample reminded me of the sun. So I was like, there should be like rays coming out, right? And so in an effort to make it a little different than the same pico pattern that I have on many patterns I found this one.
So I'm glad to know that you found it enjoyable to knit since it's the last part, it's always nice not hating the project at the end.
Sasha: Yeah, well, and it also gives you a little extra give it gives so as someone who frequently binds off too tightly. I did not go up a needle size to do this bind off and I have so much like I could have blocked this much more aggressively. So it gives you a little bit of extra elasticity in your [00:40:00] bind off, which I really appreciate.
Katie Rempe: I didn't even think about that, but you're right. There's a, a lot of forgiveness in this pattern.
Sasha: Mm.
Katie Rempe: I'm glad to know you liked the different like sections I have found in the past. Like my ship to shore shawl was really successful and quick to knit because. the first one was really small, but also people just look forward to having like the next section to get to like, okay,
Sasha: Yes.
Katie Rempe: fun.
I'm over it. I got it. What's the next one? What's
Sasha: It's the self striping yarn effect of where you're like, just two more rows and I'll get the new color
Katie Rempe: Yes, I was just gonna say that, yes! There's no room for your brain to check out, like your consciousness is invested, it is excited, and so you make progress. And it's nice also that it's in a worsted weight so that, you know, doesn't actually take too long.
Sasha: And I love all of your, your pearl rounds. I don't know if you can, 'cause mine is, oh, you can see them. Okay.
Katie Rempe: see it
Sasha: [00:41:00] it gives it this wonderful
Katie Rempe: huh,
Sasha: of the blocking gives it this wonderful ripple effect I love that imagery, I love, I, my brain is now like churning on ripple metaphors and sitting here just now, I'm like draping it in my lap and it is like the perfect little, like I just wanna cover my, my knees. Cause I'm a little cold, cause it's, it's cold outside here.
Katie Rempe: Oh, I'm glad that this could offer you a little bit of warmth for not too much of a time investment. That's
Sasha: Yeah.
Katie Rempe: I have, I did notice it's a, it's not bad for like a little bit of a lap throw and you know, a nice shape where it actually will cover you a little bit. The dog has enjoyed laying on it. I actually have been using it as like a tablecloth a lot
Sasha: Yeah!
Hex Cloth for Divination
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Katie Rempe: But generally what I really wanted were these different sections so that if you wanted to use it as a divination cloth, there were like really easy areas for you to be like, okay, I'm going to put. Three at the top or like one on each side and one in the center or just one in the center I want to be like [00:42:00] right to the point or you could do like a huge tableau in this like circular pattern and use all of these different sections that you've knit into it, so there's lots of room to put your own spin it.
Sasha: so are you planning on developing a book of spreads to go with this? Oh,
Katie Rempe: still am, based on our previous conversation at the end of the last season, I do have like a few in mind like I did the three card spread. I introduced that in the February Horoscopes for Knitters.
Sasha: I love that one. Yes.
Katie Rempe: And then I have another that's like seven cards that
Sasha: Ooh.
Katie Rempe: can do around.
Sasha: hmm.
Katie Rempe: working on developing that. Maybe it'll just be like a trio of You know,
Sasha: I like that.
Katie Rempe: don't have to make it super complicated, right?
Sasha: The other thing that I was thinking about just now, looking at it and going, oh, this would be perfect when you were talking about, oh, [00:43:00] like putting things in different sections. If you're into throwing bones or casting charms in any kind of way, this would be such a great cloth for that.
Katie Rempe: Definitely, yes. I have a bunch of runes that sometimes I'll throw, and I hate, like, hearing them clank against stuff, so this is, like, perfect to be, like, okay, which ones made it to the outer edge? Which ones are in the inner edge? Are they up or are they down? Lots of ways that you could interpret it.
So even if you just interpret it as a little blanket and you never use it for divining, that's also fine.
Adaptability Level
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Katie Rempe: So in the second half, I have a few questions, which I am asking all of my guests this season. Question number one, do you find that adapting to things comes naturally to you or is this something that you've had to develop more over the years? Oh,
Sasha: It comes really naturally to me, and I attribute a lot of that, honestly, to being left handed, and being, like, [00:44:00] strongly Unrepentant , everything is so left-handed. For forever, any instructions that go hold this in your right hand, do it with your left hand. I am flipping them for myself. With knitting, if I blindly follow a pattern charts turn out backwards.
So I, I have to think about, do I mind if the chart is backwards or does it have writing or like a picture of a globe that's gonna look weird if it's backwards or. The first sweater I made, I blindly followed instructions, and my buttonholes were not on the side that I expected them to be, because left handed problems.
So I've, I've been doing a ton of adaptation like that. And I think it just has gotten into my brain of going, if this doesn't work, it's not a problem with you, do it differently and it'll be fine. I will say that at this point in my life, the words left and right have virtually no meaning because I spent so many [00:45:00] years as a dance teacher.
And so Sometimes, you have your back to the students so that they can, like, really follow exactly what you're doing. And so, then, if you're saying, do something with your left foot, you're doing it with your left foot. And sometimes, you're facing them so that you can better see what they're doing. Or, you know, like, it's just warm ups, and so they don't, like, need the extra assist of having your back to them.
And so, then, you're going, okay, everybody to the left, and you're going to the right because you're facing them. So
Katie Rempe: Interesting.
Sasha: yeah,
like, very.
Katie Rempe: you more present in the moment?
Sasha: It makes me feel differently in space, where I am much more likely to associate the idea of left with a particular wall in a room, because that's, again, like with the dance teacher thing, that's, that's what I would do is I would say, okay, well, if the wall with the door is always left for the kids, like that's the [00:46:00] direction that they are always facing, then if I'm going towards the door, My mouth says, left, regardless of what my body is doing.
Katie Rempe: it's like the when you read a word that's a different color, but you're reading like red, but it's green.
Sasha: Yes.
Katie Rempe: that
Sasha: Yes.
Katie Rempe: have a lot of brain flexibility.
Sasha: I have fully decoupled the meanings of left and right from, from those words.
Tools & Rituals for Adapting
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Katie Rempe: Next question here, are there specific tools or rituals or techniques that help you stay flexible when challenges arise? It's not
Sasha: yes,
Katie Rempe: but life.
Sasha: in life. Yeah. Absolutely. So I think, magically speaking, tarot is my, biggest tool for this. When there are challenges, I will often pull a few cards and just, like, use it as a check in of, like, are there options that I'm not seeing? Using it to kind of break whatever thought hamster is going, because sometimes you get really, really stuck on like one idea or envisioning a problem one certain way, and [00:47:00] then you pull your cards out and they're like, what about this other thing?
There is also, there's an animated gif of, of a line that like turns into a triangle, turns into a square, turns into a pentagon, and, and you breathe in as it's expanding and then you breathe out as it's contracting and it is, It's just the most, like, centering, wonderful thing.
When I'm feeling challenged, when I'm like, I need to calm down so that I can approach this from, like, a more rational place rather than a reactive place, I will pull that gif up on my phone and just breathe with it. And I have found, like, my body really knows how much of that I need, because.
It's not like, oh, I'm going to do it three times, I'm going to do it five times. It's like, no, I do it until I start getting bored. And when I'm bored with it, that usually I'm a little bit more regulated. Awesome.
Katie Rempe: and way to know yourself. I'll definitely take you up on that and we'll share it [00:48:00] the description for folks who also maybe want to try that.
So for the win.
Sasha: Yes.
Better Outcome from a Challenge
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Katie Rempe: Is there a time when an unexpected challenge in a project led to a better outcome than you initially planned?
Sasha: Yes, and I'm so glad that you sent me these questions in advance because I brought it with me!
Katie Rempe: Yay.
Sasha: So once upon a time, I was like, I want to weave some pillow covers on my rigid heddle loom, and I want to stash bust. I'm gonna use up all of my worsted weight scraps making these, like, scrappy funky pillow covers.
so I warped it. And I started weaving and it was going great. And then all of a sudden I ran out of worsted weight scraps because this weaving just eats yarn. And I am so happy that I did run out because I love all the texture that the different sizes brought me. So in an admission that will perhaps not be surprising to anyone, I never turned these [00:49:00] pieces of cloth into the pillow covers.
But you can see like, Like here's some that's that's worsted weight, and that's fine, and then here's some that's like a chunky thick and thin and Let's see this this was some thicker stuff Let me see there's a red section. That's really pretty that I want to show you But I when I when I ran out of yarn.
I was mad. I was like I thought I had enough scraps Yeah, here we go. There's a good red section and then a chunky teal And I was like, and now my project will be ruined, and my, my grid won't be even, my, like, my weaving texture, not everything is going to be perfectly evenly spaced, and
so unlike knitting, where if it goes wrong, you just rip it out and you still have good yarn, weaving, when you warp it, you End up cutting it, and so like, all of the yarn in the [00:50:00] warp was now in, like, you know, pieces that were a few yards long. Right, so like it wasn't gonna be good for anything else.
I was so happy with how that turned out and the, differences in size and texture I think make it versus like it would have been so boring the way that I planned it.
Katie Rempe: It still would have been beautiful and wonderful and exactly what you intended, but it ended up being even more of a learning tool. Like, oh, it turns out it doesn't have to be all the same thickness, and it takes a lot more leftover yarn than you initially thought you had, which, hey, that's pretty cool. Even just having it as like, a tablecloth or just
Sasha: Yeah,
Katie Rempe: fabric that is really pretty that you can use as a tapestry or something.
Sasha: that's a good idea. Yeah.
Katie Rempe: sari or something, you know, wear it around like a shrug. Yeah. So fun. Well, good. I'm glad that you had this with you such an excellent example [00:51:00] of being flexible!
Intution & Magic
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Katie Rempe: In what ways do you think adapting and intuition work together in magical making?
Sasha: this is a great question. This is a really good one. I think that making is such, a great conduit for magical work because you get to make all the decisions from the start. You're not going, I want a, blue tablecloth for this. Ritual, or whatever, and then you go to the store, and they don't have the blue that you're thinking of, or they have it, but like, it's a round tablecloth, and your table is It's rectangular or, you know, and then you're, you're adapting from there and that's great.
That's wonderful. There's nothing wrong with that. But when you're making you go, I want a blue tablecloth that is this color blue and has this lace pattern and I'm going to make it like this. So you are getting to. Get exactly what you want and need now, rather than having to try to like, [00:52:00] work around and fix it after the fact, if that makes sense.
It's kind of like the difference between going, I want to wear a vest, so you knit a vest. And it's an awesome vest. Or going, I want to wear a vest. And you go to the thrift store, and you see an awesome sweater. So you buy it, and you cut the sleeves off, then you gotta figure out how to, like, put a little finish on there.
And, like, you end up with a great vest. Either way, I would rather, like, make a vest that was a vest in the first place. For me.
Overcoming Burnout
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Katie Rempe:
To wrap things up, what advice would you give someone who's struggling with change or feeling stuck in their creative practice?
Sasha: We have all been there. Oh my gosh. And I think it's really important not to get down on yourself or start, like, Blamey, like, you know, if you're in a slump, you're in a slump, and that's okay. It's okay to go through periods of high productivity and low productivity, and high interest and low interest, and like, maybe you're not super [00:53:00] into knitting this year.
Maybe you're super into reading, or maybe the garden has caught your attention, that's fine. Be gentle with yourself. But if What is going on is that, like, you know that you love knitting, and you really want to be knitting, and you are just not, not feeling it. My best advice is to seek out community, whether that's in person, or online, or however.
I know I do better work, I do more work, and I'm more enthusiastic about my work when I am in community. And that doesn't mean just looking. It doesn't mean scrolling You know, hashtags and looking at everybody else's beautiful projects. It means interacting with people going, I love that. How did you do it?
Or I'm running into this problem. Can anybody help me solve it? Or look at this great thing I just made. It's entering the conversation because there are so many brilliant people out there and. It's not possible for any one person to know everything and when you're, when you're [00:54:00] engaging with the thinking, even if you're not making anything, even if you start out and like just all you're doing is going, that's beautiful, I love the color, or where did you find that yarn?
Number one, you're making that person feel awesome that somebody is interested in their work, which is in and of itself a good thing. But you're also like, you're, you're thinking about it again, then you're going, Oh, I love working with blue yarn. Or I love looking at projects that are in blue yarn.
Maybe I want to make something that's blue. Or, wow, mittens have really been catching my eye lately. Maybe I should look for a mitten pattern and see if that, like, feels like fun. Even if that's not something that you usually make. Or even if that's something that you've made a dozen of and you're like, I don't need more mittens.
Katie Rempe: Someone does,
Sasha: Someone does. And you know, I was having this conversation with a friend the other day that I was like, everything that I want to make right now is an object that I don't need. Or even some of them that I don't know that I would want to keep or wear. And she said, you know, you're [00:55:00] allowed to make things just for the joy of it, right?
Like, you are allowed to just make what you want to make and have that be the goal.
Katie Rempe: There are people who have a million shawls. You can't wear them all at once. I mean, you could, but generally most people don't. And that's okay. Like you said, some people never wear them, but they make great gifts. You're always going to have something like to wear with something, lots of options, you know, even if you're not wearing them all the time. And what really struck you about that thing was a certain skill in it. So like the, what you're making is sort of. just a bonus. I miss the knitting community for a long time.
I was like, you know, I, I, as a person who worked at a store, it was not a Zen experience for me to hang out at a yarn store. Cause I couldn't stop myself from like. Being asked to help people
Sasha: Yep.
Katie Rempe: feeling like I have to help these people because
Sasha: Yep.
Katie Rempe: [00:56:00] answer.
Sasha: Well, and
Katie Rempe: like, they don't need to know the answer from me necessarily.
Sasha: I used to really enjoy going to trade shows, not just to find cool new things for the store or to like exhibit and try to get new customers or whatever, but because of the ability to just be around other creative brains, to just bounce ideas around with cool people who are interested in the same things that I am.
I would always come back from those, like, feeling number one, smart and cool and amazing and ready to work, like, ready to like, really get creative and make something happen. And you know, not to be too much of a downer, but like, I'm still being really cautious with my health around, various things.
things. And so I haven't been to a trade show in five years. And I know that my business has suffered because of it, because I don't get that, punch of like, yes, this is why I'm doing this. And these are cool ideas. You know, [00:57:00] it's, it's hard to every day sit down and be like, all right, do the thing.
Katie Rempe: I know exactly what you're talking about. This is where we met, was at a trade show. And it doesn't also help that there are far less of them now.
Sasha: Yes.
Katie Rempe: they're more expensive than ever.
Sasha: And the topics are broader.
if I were to go to like the trade show. That has mostly taken over from the one where Katie and I met at is not just for fiber arts It's for all creativity Which is great because like there are people who love scrapbooking and knitting and now you can go shop Scrapbooking stuff and knitting stuff all in one place, but it does it changes the vibe
Katie Rempe: yes. Dilutes it a little bit, there's really not to say no reason for me to go to like a wholesale trade show anymore.
But I'm not selling, and so it's 100 percent of financial [00:58:00] output. And like. an emotional return, but like, it's not always financially smart.
Sasha: That's where I'm at is that the, the business that I would be exhibiting as my wholesaling business focuses on fiber for hand spinners, which in the fiber arts world was already like. a small niche of the fiber arts world. And so now if the fiber arts world is a small niche of this larger crafting ecosystem, to be there representing like a niche of a niche, there's not going to be enough customers, you know, because the shops that carry rubber stamps are not likely to also want to carry fiber for hand spinners.
They might pick up a little bit of yarn for like people who want to like add it to cards or, or something like that could be. Kind of cool, there could be some synergy there, but I'm having a hard time imagining enough uses for fiber in all different kinds of making to make it worth the expense of exhibiting because, oh my gosh, our trade show's expensive.
Katie Rempe: In so many [00:59:00] ways, even if you can just drive there with your stuff, like everything's expensive, the food's expensive, the lodging's expensive, getting the booth. Like there's so many aspects that folks don't know about. So maybe in the future, hopefully in the future there will be new options.
Things are always changing. I mean, Joanne's is going out of business, so like
opportunity for for more. local small stores to that marketplace, but then that leads to its own challenges because there's different price points that people are expected and selections that, you know, are not necessarily realistic for someone who's small.
And so, I think this year and next year will be a very evolution
Sasha: Yes.
Katie Rempe: fiber arts, knitting, crafting,
Sasha: Yes.
Katie Rempe: in, in a lot of ways. And I think we'll see that in shops and all sorts of things. So, so we'll see,
Sasha: industry is [01:00:00] changing.
We're all adapting.
Katie Rempe: Yeah, exactly.
Well, Sasha, thank you as always for spending time with us here. You're one of my favorite people to talk to about magical making and just, you know, talk about the exchange of energy and creativity. We could spend just an hour talking and have 700 ideas at the end, which are some of my favorite ways to converse because Then we can, I at least will feel energized like a low key version of what those trade shows used to
Follow SkeinShop.com!
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Sasha: Absolutely.
Katie Rempe: And hopefully our listeners really enjoyed it. And if you want to follow Sasha at skein shop and learn more about where you can purchase yarn, especially if you don't have a local yarn store to support, this could be your local yarn store online. So why don't you go ahead and remind folks where they can find out more about skein shop.
Sasha: Absolutely. So the best place to find information is just the website. It's skeinshop. com. If you want to communicate with me via email, that's [01:01:00] info at skeinshop. com. I love consulting with people. If you go, I want to make this pattern, what yarn do you think? Or I was looking at this color and I want a green to go with it, but I'm not sure which one.
I'll take a bunch of pictures and send you options. I love doing things like that. So please don't hesitate to reach out. I think I am going to leave the Skein Shop Instagram, but not really do anything with it. By the time this episode comes out, I will have a Blue Sky account for the shop, and so I will make sure that Katie has that information to link in the description.
We would love to chat with you on Blue Sky, if that's a
Katie Rempe: you can join us again on Patreon if you are in this fellow Patreon subscriber, it's just 5 a month and you will get access to all of the aftershows that we are continuing to do this season. The aftershows come out on Fridays, so that you can have more magical making goodness. Throughout the week. I also have a weekly coloring page that comes out on Monday related to the episode So there's so much to do five dollars a month, even [01:02:00] if you only do it for one month It's a great way to support the show. Well Sasha, thank you again for joining us and we will see you again soon. I'm sure
Sasha: Thank you, Katie. This is always so much fun. Bye!
Katie Rempe: bye everybody see you next time
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