hi everybody and welcome to another episode of knit a spell today we have an amazing guest katie it's nicholas pearson the crystal expert reiki teacher and author of seven books including crystal basics hi nicholas welcome to knit a spell thanks so much for having me i'm delighted to join you today light from lantern presents knit a spell i'm magical maker katie rempe and i'm the maker of magic james devine join us as we stitch together the symbiotic relationship between crafting and the craft i am ecstatic that you're able to be here we're inspired to ask you to be on the show because as katie and i were putting this episode together the episode is about crystals of protection and we started looking at okay well what are the crystals that are used for protection and as we started looking up crystals it seems like a there's differing opinions on the internet b there's different opinions in books c seems like almost every crystal can be used for almost anything d ah but then i remembered in my fabulous instagram series me to mystic i had such a great time with you nicholas because your approach is so much about the science like your understanding of mineralogy gemology like the the chemical makeup the crystalline makeup of the minerals is so fascinating to me added to your knowledge of the metaphysical side how the metaphysics work how the magic works and you have such an elegant way of bringing those two things together that i was immediately drawn to katie let's just see on a whim if nicolas is available and talk to him about this topic so that's where this came from and i'm curious how did your passion for crystal start well thank you for the lovely introduction um my my love for rocks began early in life just because i was that kid who picked up rocks everywhere um it didn't matter where i was if if rock spoke to me it came home with me and so it was kind of like the the regular habit of having to empty my pockets before they went in the laundry which continues to this day my very soon to be husband still has to check my pockets for rocks um but right around the right ripe old age of eight my grandfather gave me my first quartz crystal so rock was suddenly transfigured from this kind of inner part of the landscape that i liked but other people didn't quite get to something that clearly was magical and it's kind of a big claim to say that wine rock changed my life but in no uncertain terms is that true that is exactly what happened this one mineral specimen from hot springs arkansas would alter the trajectory of many many years to come so i'm still a collector i still have that same piece of quartz right beside me i was teaching a class just on courts today so that was kind of my my totemic ally if you will to hold through the the six weeks we just closed today and early on you know i grew up in a non-religious household my dad was a recovering catholic he had a science background so i was encouraged to have a science background or foreground i guess at that point as well and when other families went to church on weekends we went to what i lovingly refer to as the cathedral of learning we went to the library every two weeks except for when i was too smart for my own good and then we had to go every week because my dad convinced me i was only allowed to check out four books at a time i genuinely thought this was a rule in libraries um and then i started to read four books a week or more so um you know i got bigger books or more of them and that made everyone happy but one week it might be the natural sciences and learning about the earth and learning about you know plants or fish or whatever i could sink my teeth into and then the next week it might be fairy tales and folklore and world religion and mythology because there's this vacancy in my life other kids talked about church and jesus and the bible i have no idea to this day what most of that is really about you know i've done some reading it's not for me it was so interesting to me how all over the world uh you have these kind of parallel symbol sets that describe the same natural phenomena and derive meaning from it in startlingly similar ways so whether you know we bow at the church of science or scientology i mean really human beings are trying to derive meaning in the world around us and the special place where i found the overlap between science and spirituality was in crystal healing which opened the door to learning about the folklore of rocks and their magical uses and that you know led me down the witchcraft wormhole so you know i'm very glad it did occultism fits me pretty well i think and rocks continue to be the thing that i think i get the most excited about every day i love it we were talking in another episode about how it's one thing to yeah you can buy like a crystal quartz or an emerald or whatever but there's just as many powerful qualities in the rocks that are right by you yeah and that's that's a very very very very old practice working with what's at your doorstep what's in your backyard what's below your feet um i i wear some pretty humble things every day i have a bracelet made out of granite it's granite from a particularly cool place for me but like the fact that it's granite is not geologically very interesting and the average crystal healer looks like granite and sneers but those are the kind of rocks that i really find myself turning to a lot more these days i still have a fabulous mineral collection i still spend a lot of money on like museum quality rocks but sometimes it's the simple things limestone flint chalk um that really support us the most when we need it oh chuck i didn't even think about that but of course yes i have a rock and a shell that i found on the beach that actually fit together almost like they're made for each other and are a symbol of the two polarities of deity and they were found in different spots in the same beach absolutely the coolest thing ever and when i was a kid in the sonoran desert i would find turquoise just laying there in the desert as i walked and that was always really fun to find and sort of collect it's really special to find those things around your own doorstep nicholas let me ask you this do you think that's part of the reason why stones and crystals are so often used for protective qualities is because they're kind of like everywhere yes and no i mean they're kind of like the mystical other aren't they like they're part of the landscape they're accessible they're available they're all sewn separate from us in some ways they're utilitarian you know our earliest shelters our earliest tools some of our first pigments and so on and so forth we continue to use rocks minerals ores um and synthesized versions thereof in our technology to this day but you know think of the the sureness you feel enclosed in a stone circle or the the concrete walls of your home which is made of pulverized rocks think of the protection that something sharp like a rough piece of obsidian or flint or anything else might confer to you if you are walking through the wilds with no light think of how supported we are by rock in every single thing that we do it's it's this pervasive way that it touches our existence and has since the beginning of time and i think the reason in particular so many fancy rocks gems and minerals tend to be associated with protection when we look at the the folklore both modern and not so modern is because of that that otherness that sacredness there are lots of indigenous ideas from many parts of the world that tell us that at least certain minerals certain gems are somehow wrapped up in some sort of divine providence and so when we hold a piece of something like quartz that the gods have permanently transfigured or something like lapis lazuli which resembles the night sky or a piece of obsidian which comes from this liminal space and erupts from the earth we're holding something beyond the ordinary and to have that non-ordinariness around us elevates us above and beyond the things that might threaten our existence reminds us of something eternal and the fact that rock is part of the landscape for ever that that eternity that way that it it stands the erosive nature of time itself confers some of that ability to withstand the stuff that monster you wrote us and erode our piece the same way it's so well said i guess i think about our squishy flesh versus like the durability of rock and how it just sustains and there's that contrast what are the crystals that people turn to for protection i could think of a few myself but i'd like to ask your opinion well if i wanted to list as many as i could think of we'd be here all night so yeah right i mean i don't want to wear us out but and that's why we needed an expert it was like well if it's black that seems to be a theme that's fairly unsatisfying i guess a better this then maybe katie you you bring up a better question which is how would one discern protective qualities in a crystal and stone my thought was gosh you know i'd turn to color weight and how it feels in my hand well i mean color is meaningful to a lot of people the the interpretation of color in the world around us is a very human thing but our relationship with color changes culturally over time so the meaning we attribute to colored gems also changes over time so these days you find a lot of things that are uh protective that are maybe black or metallic and you know we think of those things as kind of deflecting energy if if we look at the physics of their color they're actually absorbing the whole spectrum they're not reflecting much of anything at all so that that kind of doesn't track um if we look at like the contrast between white and black versus you know today versus the you know mesolithic or neolithic era they had them flipped you know white was not a very positive color because it was the color of the barren land of snow of bone and black was the color of fertile earth so we have to remember that that color is a moving target and i also have to admit i have a personal bias here i'm really profoundly colorblind so color is the least important thing in mineral id it's it's the last thing a geologist is going to use to assess what species something is it can be helpful and sometimes the shade of something is so telltale you don't have to go through the rest of this stuff but you know someone scientifically minded is going to go through the rest of the stuff anyway just to be sure and look at the physics behind that colors maybe seven percent of a crystal's total energy it's a very small amount if we look at how the process involves the ingredients that come together its chemical composition and its crystal structure then we get some really concrete clues and then we can also maybe look to the historical record so um you find a lot of minerals that are rich in iron that are really protective or even those that just have enough iron to alter their color so you know we could be talking about carnelian which is attributed to mars long before people knew it had iron in it iron being the planetary metal associated with our mars and mars is the planet we think of as like god of war god of defense ambition drive motivation conflict all of those kinds of things so a martian kind of gem would be good for bloodstone a variety of jasper same idea it's got these little red flecks in it from little traces of hematite itself is a very simple iron oxide so that could be a great protection kind of stone and if we want to like carry that iron continuity just one further we could maybe even look at black tourmaline so a lot of people are going to look at the color black and go yeah this is protective but black tourmaline is one of the most iron rich members of the tourmaline group truman's not one kind of rock it's actually like a bunch of cousins that are closely related but not exactly the same so uh that would be like the iron bearing member of that group and some of the other stones that i like to use for protection are are things that have maybe some interesting optical phenomena that give us clues as to how they might interact with um say capital l light because of how they interact with lowercase l light if that makes sense so something like labradorite labradorite has this effect kind of like diffusion um diffraction grading rather so as light penetrates it kind of gets scrambled and then you see people isn't it called labradescence don't they call it that yeah is that phenomenon exhibited in this stone from its unique makeup we would we would call it like a like a um it's that luminous quality that labradorite has that we would maybe call uh iridescence but it actually i think it's really cool that it actually has a name in labradorite called labradorescence is it labrador essence is that right yeah labradors yes so very isn't that a colgate your geek out moment brought to you by pearson and what's nifty versus iridescence which is like a superficial thing labradorescence occurs because of something called an immiscibility gap so feldspar is a big family it includes labradorite and moonstone and sunstone lots of other things but here's something that might blow our minds a bit um like sunstone and moonstone are phenomena they're not substances so any number of substances when they demonstrate those optical phenomena can be called those things so with with the property of labradorescence it's typically found in labradorite but it can also be found in other things that do the same thing so we have like these layers they call them laminae from like the latin word to laminate to bond together and they intermingle and depending on the the um relative width of those individual layers they will bend light in slightly different directions because they have different refractive indices so um the the width of it will be related to the wavelength of light that we perceive so you know if it's much wider we're going to see red if it's much narrower we're going to see like blue and violet so the thinner the layers the the the shorter the wavelength of light gets through to our eyes that's how we perceive it even though none of those pigments are in the stone there's there's no chemical in there that changes the color it's it's all like a trick of the light but it's it's the fact that it deals with boundaries it is the boundary between these two closely related things that are not the same and so in our own energy field it does something kind of similar it reminds my my aura where its boundaries begin and end so that way i'm not taking on other people's crud uh to use a technical term um and even though like all the rest of the terms even even though my energy field resembles someone else's quite a lot they're they're distinct they're separate and so labradorite allows that boundary to be there kind of like a selectively permeable membrane there are some things that can come and go certain wavelengths that pass with ease and others get kind of scrambled and filtered out and that is helpful because boundaries allow us to remain whole boundaries allow us to express unconditional love without having to sacrifice ourselves because that doesn't mean we have to have unconditional relationships if if we have these unconditional relationships we can't practice self-care and you know at the end of the day self-care is community care so labradorite's a really great stone if we tend to show up better for other people than we show up for ourselves it's just just enough of a reminder to say hey um have you taken a step back yet today um this this burden you're carrying i don't think that came from you would would you like to put it down okay let's do that okay do you see why i insisted on nicholas pierce being interviewed do you see what i mean now can we get this to be like a quarterly segment i just you have so much knowledge i just want to listen to all of the things i have so many questions i'm made of questions now speaking of the lamination and how that changes the light how does the natural shape of a stone or gem influence the energy versus something that we the people then put it into afterwards do you and do you mean the cut shape that it's polished into or do you mean the crystalline structure that it forms in like the natural we would just get it from the earth and then here you go versus like okay i'm gonna make this into like a a pyramid or something like that sure yeah i have thoughts um so you know the the three fundamental drivers in a crystal's energy like the fundamental we'll use an analogy of music the things that determine what pitch we hear are its composition what what ingredients came together the shape they formed its crystal structure and the process that brought them together everything else is kind of secondary to that so that's gonna include like whether light passes all the way through or not the color the hardness specific gravity i mean you name it if it's something we can measure it's somehow affecting the energy but you notice like shape external morphology is not in that list of primary things so that's because in in nature in the geosphere as things form on their own um the external forms are going to be a reflection of two primary things the internal laws of symmetry you know what what primary shapes do its molecules make and also what's available in its environment so relative speed and pressure and temperature and how much room there is that that determines a lot so if those are our primary drivers then no amount of cutting grinding scraping fastening polishing changes those so we're not changing the fundamental pitch that we're hearing but we can affect the way the energy is distributed which is kind of like listening to the same song on two different sets of speakers how it sounds with your ear buds in probably sounds a little bit different than it does from tiny version of that file played on youtube on your desktop so same music but how we perceive it differs on shape so we can maybe encourage it to be more evenly distributed with something like a sphere something soft and kind of radiant in all directions we can encourage it to be really directional if it has a point on it um but all of that still is is subsidiary to those primary laws of how it's formed what ingredients it's made out of and what shape those ingredients make i love that there's a logic to this also i sometimes have judgment around stones that are cut or polished i just really love stones that are natural i'm always in search of a really well-formed garnet that is a natural crystal garnet obviously that to find one that has any kind of translucency that is in its natural form is probably hella expensive in a museum somewhere but an unpolished crystal garnet i don't think it's a dodecahedron but whatever the shape is it a dodecahedron is that the yeah i'll only know that because of dungeons and dragons but in any case it's a really cool distinctive shape that is the natural crystalline structure of a garnet and you'll see them sometimes at crystal shows or whatever and it's very hard to find them with any kind of translucency but they're just amazing what you've said nicholas has me be less judgy about a stone being polished cut or made into a cabochon or something like that well and you know at the end of the day you like what you like so use the tools that resonate with you that's that's a like pretty broad statement not just about rocks but in general you know like you absolutely hate the color purple you're probably not going to crochet a purple scarf unless someone asks you really hard i don't think that having that kind of internal bias is it's it's neither productive nor destructive as as long as you still are in a relationship with your rocks um one thing i omitted that might be kind of a helpful point is that like shape also converts symbolic meaning so even if it's not changing the fundamental energy of a crystal it can affect our relationship so you know the the shape of a heart has no particular resonance with the laws of physics that tells me it must vibrate to a frequency that equals unconditional love but we have this kind of cultural phenomena built up around hearts so when i buy a gem in a heart shape i'm conferring another layer of meaning that comes from relationship and so you know we can have layers of meaning around natural shapes artificial shapes and everything kind of in between too why don't we take a quick break and then when we come back we'll dive into a little more magic and making aspects of crystals of protection we'll be right back have you ever wanted to be a professional palm reader or add palm reading to your existing practice coming this summer i will be taking applications for my six month online group apprenticeship program the divine hand mastership program i will have a limited number of individuals 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building a wall i don't want to do that that doesn't make my work effective okay i want to pause there because that is like the number one thing for everyone listening to take away is people forever are asking if you're an empath how do i not take people's stuff on this is such a pro tip right now labradorite so thank you for letting me pause you right there because i just wanted to put a pin in that so okay and then how would we use it so one of my favorite ways is fairly passive i wear a bracelet of it you could stick some in a pocket a bag raw anything that works for you wear it as a pendant string of beads make yourself happy with some labradorite in your space but i have a visualization that i use to accompany it and i imagine that whatever my labradorite token is so if that's my bracelet great if it's you know something around your neck hold that and as you breathe imagine that you're kind of drawing in the energy of labradorite imagine it that it is you know labradorescent or iridescent just like the stone and as you exhale let it kind of fill your aura let it become a kind of membrane of light around you something flexible something breathable but the more you practice this the more you crystallize that visualization the easier it is to go to and it becomes this almost like autonomic response so your aura is like oh we got this we know how to put this protection in place and you will sometimes catch me in public talking to someone who is well intentioned but you know i can i can feel their little etheric hands reaching out doing the whole grabby grabby and i'm just like hmm you know i'd be happy to serve you here's my card you can you know message me and i put that boundary there you know this is not the appropriate format for this or you know that's not a thing that i do but i can tell you who does and you know labrador it's the way to have the energetic component of that i have to like deal with the interaction the social [ __ ] the intellectual bit on mail labradorite won't give me that but you know if you operate in the public space for long enough you you figure it out or you don't so i'm i'm glad to be figuring it out another one that i use a lot is precili so i do know that one's gonna be a little less accessible to some people it's found in whales um if we were a geologist we might call it um ophidic dolorite so delurid is a kind of igneous rock and ophites are just like splotches essentially they're like phenocrysts or or um aggregates of specific mineral crystals inside the structure so you know i've got a pendant here so you can see the little oh fights the little white patches against the kind of gray green blue gray green kind of background or so i'm told and this is what the inner ring of stonehenge is made out of there are lots of other stone circles and stone monuments um cairns and all sorts of fun things made from it has this really deep resonance to the land it strengthens us from the inside out so rather than trying to build a boundary from the outside in it helps us find the sense of resiliency and it does that in part through staying really effectively grounded i think i think there are a lot of people who may not necessarily know what effective grounding looks like feels like and what it aims to accomplish so you know when we are really fully grounded we are completing the circuit between us and the earth or even more effectively between the heavens and us and the earth so we become a conduit things can flow through us but they don't have to stick around um you know when we have a big appliance and we plug it into the wall here in the us at least we have that third prong which is the grounding problem so if there's a short there's a safe place for it to discharge it doesn't you know damage our appliance and when we are effectively grounded it's another way we can show up for people and not not hold their stuff maybe even help them alleviate it because we have this strong rooting strong connection a safe place to discharge anything that doesn't serve us that is just harmonious that is better served by being transmuted by the earth so a good grounding stone is often a good protection stone which is why we see things like black tourmaline and flint and even fluorite and granite which are which are strong grounding stones also being effective for protection totally makes sense we have a system in our tradition called anchoring the reason we call it that is to make a distinction between what most people do and call grounding which is a way to anchor ourselves in the earth and up in the center of the universe and it creates a durable state of groundedness if you will and we use crystals often we can do that with an edifice like a home or a property and we will sometimes bury or place grounding or protective crystals almost like wards in the corners of the property or in the corners of a room or a space or a building in order to sort of symbolically maintain that anchoring that's there either pyramids of any kind of grounding or anchoring stone or protective stone so we have used i think i've used obsidian before because i've always thought of that but i love this idea of an iron rich even of labradorite and it's also convenient because black tourmaline tends to be less expensive than some of those other stones as well for sure yeah i'm all about making this accessible it's it's great if you can afford museum quality rocks it's also okay if all you can do is like dig in your backyard and find some granite like that's a powerhouse of a protection stone so use the tools you got yeah and i i mean i know this is like kind of a bit of a tangent but i can't help to think that both of these stones especially something that's iron rich and especially something that helps you from taking on other people's [ __ ] this is a woman stone this would be such a great thing to have to help you again reassess like oh am i falling back into old habits and again having that iron rich we're like all blood yeah for sure and there's there's a lot of interesting kind of parallels between gems and the divine feminine and things that i think are kind of new discoveries that herald the the hope the intention the the the trajectory that we might be on to kind of reconcile the disparity between um you know fem bodied femme identified people and and not femme identified people so um rainbow moonstone is actually a variety of the same mineral as labradorite and has this really profound connection to that goddess energy that you could certainly channel and still get the same labrador essence the same kind of optical and therefore metaphysical effects from it so that could be a really good option just from what i get from our conversation so far you might also really jive with red coral so red coral in some systems of astrology is associated with mars in particular jet tissue like ayurvedic astrology but it has this mythic story about its origins in uh the mediterranean where it's it's said to have been created by the blood of medusa and you know she was literally the most persecuted woman in greek mythology she just wanted to get away from men and even got to the point she could turn them into rocks like what a great talent and still a man comes and spoils her peace so um typical right what kind of crafts are you into i mean obviously rocks clearly but like what else how might you be incorporating them oh so i in my college days i was a really big beater oh and also a crocheter i was never a very good crocheter but it was a very fast crocheter like you could blink and i had a scarf done it was wonky but but i could i could just do it like like that yeah but my my great love was like bead weaving so um like three-dimensional kinds of things with the little tiny delica seed beads you know you put 16 hours into a project and it is this long and it can't quite fit around your neck yet and i would just keep going and it's like a trance that i could just get into and some of that stuff i put gemstones in and some of it i wouldn't but um yeah i i really used to love that and these days i don't have as much time for crafting um but i i have maintained my collection of beads for two decades now so you know they're still with me kind of it comes back yeah i've given some away but um you know there's the hope that maybe one day i'm gonna sit down and go you know i can put 36 hours into like a choker length necklace that's fine i have nothing better to do hand knotting beads has been my hobby for a little while because it is so meditative and definitely goes a lot faster than seed beads like you're doing and it's very meditative to do 108 like to make malas like this and hand knot everyone and it is very challenging for me to have focus like that so this is about as long as i can handle having focus but katie is a very fast knitter her fingers fly as she knits that's right in a blur ignite the needles at some point i'm sure fire starter yeah that's right so because crystals not all crystals and stones are necessarily water safe but one thing that probably you know as a crocheter and knitters and weavers and other people that are in the fiber arts do quite often is block projects at the end submerge it into water get all the stitches relaxed and do the finishing process it'd be a great idea to add crystals right into the water what are some water safe options that you might suggest oh yeah so my general rules of thumb would be to look for things with a hardness of above five i mean you can do lower than that if you really know your chemistry um but let's not take chances anything in the quartz family quartz clear smoky amethyst citrine but also like the cryptocurrency stone quartzes agate and chalcedony and carnelian and jasper they'd all be great um options um you're more durable gems even if they're not like super precious versions like ruby sapphire emerald aquamarine topaz they're going to be safe in water but look for things that that are relatively durable so they've got a hardness that can handle being crafty you know if you hit it with a needle or a crochet hook you don't want to split it so you know be mindful of that and avoid things that are really porous and also it stands to reason you know if you're in the fiber arts also avoid things that have been dyed because when you get it wet yes bad things happen that is a great point even your yarn has a tendency to lose color so that is a great point right and i mean if you pick some beautiful like dyed agate beads to add to a shawl or a scarf or anything else and then you want to block it at the end it might be possible that if the color of those beads is contrasting the color of the yarn well now your yarn is a different color
which you know if you're doing that intentionally could be quite cool and alchemical yeah a lot of those stone beads you forget that they're dyed you're buying on amazon or something they're not always labeled well this has been amazing i want to make sure that before we go you have plenty of time to tell everyone where they can reach you social media any upcoming events people want to learn more about crystals what are the things that you have out there so i do a lot of different kinds of classes um i have an ongoing series that i call my my mineral master classes or my mineral monoliths it's kind of a pun because it's about one rock monolith but oh i get it a monolith is something that stands by itself it stands up you know it's it's a something that commands your attention so like when you really get to know one rock you recognize that it does a whole lot more than just a few prescriptive lines from your average crystal bible or encyclopedia like it there is so much more they're multi-dimensional just like we are so i do those almost every month and every now and then i take a month off and i have replays of those on my patreon with a bunch of other classes but then i have you know great venues from all over the world who host me for different kinds of events so i've got a partnership with a college of psychic studies in london and we try to get at least a few events every quarter so i've got some new stuff coming up with them and i've got some venues here in the states that also host me and i'm i'm looking forward to the return of in-person events later this year so all of that stuff you'll be able to find it um in my social media you can visit my link tree as well which is plastered all across these places and it's available on my website and although i don't have like a certification course myself because i'm i'm not a certified kind of person i'm like a just figure it out kind of guy in most cases at least when it comes to rocks but there are some really great resources that are out there um definitely check out my books but you know if anyone is looking for for more just reach out and i'm happy to see you in the right direction because no human has all the answers there are there are tens of thousands of different mineral species and they come together to form innumerable kinds of rocks and then we have different colors and varietals of each of those so i mean the possibilities are endless and we're all in this together so i am happy to to share my resources and point people towards more resources well just so you know everyone the website is the luminous pearl and it's p-e-a-r-l not knitting pearl remember this is our stone person uh theluminousperl.com and that's the same on instagram so be sure you're following him on there and newsletters so that you're not missing out on all the good stuff well again thank you for being available on such short notice it is so appreciated um definitely people should check out at least crystal basics which jim is holding up right now which has 200 gemstones inside where you can learn much more information than even the topics that we started here today plus as he said uh he has six additional books in case this one doesn't quite get your appetite satiated be sure to check those out wherever you buy fine books it has been so fun hanging out with you i always learn something amazing i just want to thank you so much for joining us on our little podcast and helping us learn so much thank you
yes all right until next week we'll see you then bye everybody thanks thanks for listening if you enjoyed the show consider sharing it with a friend leaving a review on itunes and spotify or following knit a spell on instagram you can also subscribe to the like from lantern youtube channel to enjoy full episodes of knit a spell and see our happy faces you can also learn more about ratings classes and events going on with your favorite maker of magic james devine by visiting thedivinehand.com and subscribing to his newsletter then follow jim's fun and interactive instagram account at divine hand gym keep up with katie the magical maker by subscribing to her newsletter at lightfromlantern.com you'll even receive a free knitting pattern as a thank you gift then follow katie on instagram at lightfromlantern for even more magical making tips see you next week
