i knew we'd talk about this topic sooner or later uh i'm out
did you see it in your future was it written in the stars correct i saw it in my piece of toast this morning in fact this blur of james divine leaving the podcast yes and it said on the other side over it so light from lantern presents knit a spell i'm magical maker katie rempe and i'm the maker of magic james devine join us as we stitch together the symbiotic relationship between crafting and the craft i am never over this topic by the way me either what is divination exactly can you roll us through that you know i want your opinion on this too but if you look up divination i think this is a pretty good modified definition of divination the divination definition divination is the attempt to gain insight into a question or a situation and it's an attempt to gain insight into a question that we don't have visibility into already and there's this word that comes up in the definition the word is occult so what does a cult mean sounds scary jim it sounds scary that's right because it's used to describe things that are scary but occult by its definition it's non-scary definition is anything that you can't see into like the glass is a cult that means it's non-transparent it's hidden from view so if the glass is painted black then it becomes a cult or it's a medical term for things that like if your eye is a cult or something is occulted it just means that it becomes dark or it becomes opaque if the answer to something is unknowable like like what is someone else thinking or what's going on in that household or what happened in the past in that situation what is going to happen in the future what is happening in the present somewhere where i can't get access to those are questions that we don't and can't know we might use a standardized process a tool a methodology or a ritual to gain understanding or insight into our question our nosey ass question about something right yes correct so there are different various forms of divination and so then what we do is we use that method and then we read that form and so we like remember way back we had that episode with cindy toto where she would throw the bones that's right and she would look at where the bones and the trinkets would land on her cloth and she would determine what bones are touching what bones in which direction and from those way the bones land she would then divine or she would determine what was going on and she would have a ritual before that would happen where she would cleanse the air cleanse her spirit cleanse the objects and implements themselves using rum this is some of the ritual and the tools that people would use so that is my definition of divination what would you add i think you made a good point referencing that it's not just a future telling tool these this is not only to divine questions of the future like you said it's the past it's the present it's all sorts of things also are unconscious exactly i think it's important also to discuss then what is the difference between divination and quote being psychic right right and i think we agree on this uh yes i don't think they are mutually exclusive yeah but i think they're nesting i think they nest on to each other in an interesting way so do you think that you need to be psychic to use the divinatory tools so let's use tarot the tarot cards do i need to be psychic to use do tarot cards i don't think so much like magic i don't think you need to be psychic to use magic either is it helpful probably but is it needed no not at all you know especially if you understand the process and it makes sense to you having a faith in the process i think is probably the most important tool right so i agree i think that the divinatory tools can be used to access our unconscious mind just as much as they can be used to stimulate our psychic abilities so in my opinion i think that like carl young used the tarot to access archetypal ideas from the major arcana and the minor arcana from the images on the cards and what they mean as a way to access one's unconscious but i think that also the psychic ability so being psychic as we talked about in our claire's episode and accessing our psychic abilities that also can be used with divination it can also be used by itself without a divinatory tool whatsoever where people can just sit and allow psychic images to show up but i wouldn't call that divination yeah i agree i think divination again for me requires or assumes a tool to help you interpret the information right a tool process or ritual i would agree yeah and and because of that it's there's like a bajillion zillion methods of divination as it turns out anything could be a tool for dividing an answer to something anything anything jim wait anything anything like the wrinkles in fabric yeah like the wrinkles in your face like wait you mean there's a name for that there's a name for the types of divination like like reading the wrinkles in my face is called satyamancy or something or faceomancy something mancy yes all the mancies are covered here all the nancies you coined uh yarnomancy at the beginning of the podcast a long time ago and i still think about that all the time we met in pamita and i coined um smell-o-mancy there you go yeah that's where you have too many um magical oils and you don't know which one to pick and so you don't read the label and you just smell each of them and whichever one smells the best to you then you read the label and you're like i guess that's what i need ultimate power that's what i eat today ultimate power apparently oh i love that actually that's how i collect herbs into my teas too i'll smell them and if they smell right together and smell good to me i'll know that's what i need and yeah it goes well together you're doing smell-a-mancy i didn't even know there are some forms of divination that we do know pretty well the divinatory titles for divination sometimes end in ology which normally that would be a scientific term normally we would say geology and that's the scientific term and geomency would be the divinatory term so usually we have it split that way but occasionally the scientific term was previously co-opted by the divinatory or the magical people for instance astrology
is the divinatory term so they don't say a stromancy they had to use something else so they see astronomy i never thought about that but that's a great point so there's the basic one we have of tarot card reading mm-hmm and there's actu that's under the under the umbrella of reading all cards whatever they are so leonard mend oracle cards playing cards and that's called cardomancy yeah or is it cartamancy or cartomancy oh is that a tomato tomato situation i don't i think probably maybe it's like are you from england reading the tea leaves potassium antsy our favorite paul mystery yeah palmistry also known as chiromancy uh there you can use pendulums uh like we said bone throwing or any sort of tooth or trinket throwing to divine where they land related to that casting the runes yes exactly you may also have one of these in your household right now ouija board so fun but that also sometimes is part of the thing where you do a ritual and that's part of it like you have a tool or a process you may also do a ritual to call out a spirit's name to cleanse the space to call it a spare statement and use the board with another person to use to call the spirit or to find the spirit and so you'll have these things that include ritual and a tool so that's a great example of how you might do that so i mean we could go on and on listing like a million of them for everyone's reference who's listening if you'd like to go down the rabbit hole of how many millions of billions of mancies analogies etc there are we have linked in the show notes uh to the wiki link of huge list of them for you to enjoy so i think there's in the hundreds yeah yes again proving that literally anything even your own poo can be divined or animal droppings was very common a divination by birds in the ancient greeks um looking at how birds are flying very very common uh form of divination in ancient greek so yeah there's all kinds of ways to do divination and the ones we know palmistry card reading pendulums are pretty common ones that we see today but there's lots of other ones that we use today too that are super fun scrying is one that's very common um things like that water yep yeah i like bibliomancy i think that's a really good one where you're looking for something you can open up a book and just read a phrase and then reflect on it yes that is one of my favorite ways to do it actually especially if you need like a quick answer it always seems like whatever you read is like that's it it's amazing how that works i want to know what your most successful divination tools are what do you what's your go-to um well obviously tarot is probably the big one however do you do that for yourself i mean every day or often i have better results with other people than with myself that's fascinating yeah it's always harder to read for myself no matter what it is yeah like you don't pull a card pull a card to reflect on that card i guess did you do that at the beginning to learn oh yeah yeah definitely to learn all the cards and like i wrote them all out and personal meetings too and that really helped everything stick um but but again like drawing the lines between the cards to answer the question for some reason is just easier when i'm not full of my own bias well i want to know which divination tool do you use for yourself is there another one that we don't know besides the cards that you use oh um probably i don't know what the mancy is called but uh music so i will usually have a question in mind and then throughout the day i'm always listening to music uh normally i will come across a song like this morning for example um that will have like the perfect message in it or like just one line or two words together where i will like snap my head over and be like what did they just say what was that hold on what was that so and that's how i know because normally i wouldn't pay attention because i've probably been listening all day but that was the thing so that's really cool well mine is palmistry but i don't really use i use palmistry for other people i don't use palmistry for myself because that doesn't work but for myself i will use the tarot where i will pull it to row card and or do a reading for myself and then reflect on that reading so i find that that does work for myself um but i also use runes i will sometimes cast the runes and read those i've used runes for a long long time yeah kind of nobody really knows but i will use those sometimes runes are tricky uh i like them so this is a great question then to go on that what divination tool has not worked for you i can never get the pendulum to work for oh really and i own like three oh i have it right here i have this beautiful box look at this box oh my god like ebony there's amazing woods right little table and it opens it's got this gorgeous bag so cute inside it has this absolutely stunning pendulum inside with my favorite stone beautiful amethyst and i hold it here like instructed i've never been able to make a pendulum work for me no oh well i don't know if this helps or not mine never circle never but they will go back and forth and up and down but never a circle you should try the necklace you're wearing maybe that would work yeah it's so good wearing it this necklace is brand new oh it's um i just received it as a gift from my friends at soultopia it was a surprise to receive as a gift isn't it cool smokey quartz question mark yeah smoky quartz um nailing it yeah so like how would that be yeah just like that and then you establish yes and no show me yes show me now it's reflecting um rainbows it could even be how it spins like just twists instead of you know turning or whatever so all right so pendulums not so much your forte that's fine what's the thing that has not worked for you uh i've always wanted to be so good with runes because i just feel like they're so badass and i don't get it like the meanings won't stick in my head no matter how hard i try i have hard time telling some of them apart and so i've even like made my own set before which we'll talk in our second half and i still can't read them well so
whatever that's fine better not whatever runes i'm not taking it too personally well okay let's take a break maybe we need to do some room i'll calm down yeah that's maroon healing all right i'll calm down and we'll be back right after this break hey knitter spell fans my new knitting pattern sun tea has arrived and is perfect for the summer time it's quick to make this season in washable woolly worsted by uu yarns and combines two colors using mosaic knitting magical makers will enjoy exploring ways to add in intent-oriented correspondences using color magic not magic and more find out more on my website lightfromlantern.com or download the pattern right now on ravelry have you ever wanted to be a professional palm reader coming this summer i will be taking applications for my six-month online group apprenticeship program the divine hand mastership where a limited number of individuals will have the opportunity to study the divine hand method of palmistry with me you can sign up to learn more about this exclusive opportunity at thedivinehand.com forward slash mastership i hope to see you there welcome back everybody so jim how does someone go about finding which divination tool will best work for them is it just trial and error
yes it's trial and error and no it's not trial and error no perfect okay um because if it was just trial and error then you would just try one and be like this is stupid and then throw it away this is dumb and you would try it once and pitch it like any tool if you decided whether you wanted to ride a bike based on the first time you rode a bike you would never ride a bike great point i i mean my opinion i think it's practice i i'm saying this as a person who has tried the pendulum quite a bit yes that's right so i've tried the pendulum quite a bit i keep my pendulum i love my pendulum i'm okay with having other methods it's fine it's beautiful i appreciate that it works for other people yeah and i find other divinatory methods that really work for me i like to expand myself into things scrying is also sometimes difficult for me it's also cognitively expansive it it does something else to your brain in the meditative space to be able to expand your visual cortex and your ability to envision things so i think that scrying is a skill that that i encourage everyone to really attempt to have an experience with and have some of that with even if it's hard so i think it's worth practicing i think you hit the nail on the head it's a discipline and people hate that word but it's true just like you said like if my first knitting experience set me up for the rest of my knitting life i would have run in horror because it was in a different language i didn't know what the hell any of it met how do i even get the materials for it so um yeah it's all about having the desire right to want to do it and then actually doing it consistently and maybe that's the difference between the runes and the whatever maybe if i'd had done it more eventually it would have come through but you know what there's so many options that like why force one right there's something that's true and and in 10 years the pendulum may end up being your best tool things change in weird ways so so it's a good thing that the pendulum is my favorite stone and my favorite color and it's kind of very at the end it sure helps yeah well and i love that because you don't have to do the runes there's a lot of other divinatory methodologies and there's a lot of other crafts you don't have to knit exactly i was just recently thinking about how i haven't really knit much since the beginning of our podcast but then i was thinking gosh there was a really cool crochet pattern i was seeing and i was thinking of whether it would be um offensive for me to start crocheting what would katie are you worried about offending me yeah would it offend katie if i started crocheting and i thought i saw the headlines now tmz would be after us because the co-host of neta spell started crocheting jim jim jim can we have a picture please why what is why are you just holding one tool why where's the other i can't talk to you tmz i can't are you a hooker now what's happening stop it tmz stop chasing me
so i i don't want to really talk about it wow okay well see that escalated that escalated quickly um well allow me to ease your mind i i don't mind at all i i want you to find a craft that you love and plus you have in-house help with crochet so that probably would would make it easier so i almost felt like i was coming out but i haven't even done it yet oh
well that's you know what i feel like i've been cheating on my knitting a little bit lately also because i've been taking out so much embroidery lately so you know it's a craft um you do other crafts it's whatever look to your left is your yarn staring at you right now it is but it's saying you know you can embroider with us too
there's just more options now that's right so i think this is the same with divination i don't think that your divinatory tool that you've left neglected in a drawer is mad at you we have all these different divinatory ways and methods and crafts all of our crafts are in the same bucket and and we can use them and explore them and some of them somehow are just resonate with us differently yeah and a lot of time they end up overlapping anyway as we found so just add a new layer on i discovered that one of the techniques in embroidery requires you to cast on to a needle there you go i guess it was like are you kidding that's one of the ways to make petals of a flower is to cast onto a needle you can't get away from knitting even if you try that's right it's a tiny wand so speaking of making have you made any divinatory tools okay when i was a kid i came up with this whole divin divinatory system whoa and i can't remember where i lost it it was in one of my notebooks as a kid and one day i think i might find it and maybe i'll use it but it used a box and like rocks and okay this whole like method i thought oh my gosh one day i want to find that and i'll be like i was genius or maybe i'll be i was an idiot but anyway it was i remember making that in particular and i really wish i could find that as an adult i have been thinking about a palmistry divination card deck that would be different and i've sketched out a couple so i have some of those sort of in mind there are some palmistry card decks that are out there i have a different sort of model and idea for one that i've been really thinking about it's helpful to apply game theory to divinatory oracle decks yes so those are some things that i've been thinking about but what about you have you ever created or crafted or have ideas for one well um you know back when i was really into runes still trying to make that work uh i was like oh i'm gonna make my own set it's gonna be awesome and took the opportunity to go walk along the beach one day and pick out the stones that caught my eye until i had enough and then i went home and drew all of the runes on with sharpie which was a horrible idea because it came off on my hands immediately so if i had an etching tool that would have been better but i still have them eventually maybe i'll use them again but recently since i've been getting into so much cardamancy or whatever it's called i developed a game or i'm developing a card game that uses intuition to answer questions so um we'll see if i end up rolling that out just for fun for people and our listeners if anyone's interested later in the year so that's cool we used to play witch's poker what's that so have you ever played like blind man's poker it's called where you put a playing card um on your forehead oh you don't know what this card is but everyone else does well we would play this with tarot cards and then it's called witch's poker because people would read you based on the card you have you don't know what it is it was super fun to do it that way it's like guessing so for those listening i put the card on my forehead like sort of balanced on my glasses well i've learned a ton in this episode i don't know about you i love divination it's such a fabulous tool for us to use and we talk about it also in making that you can use divination when you're making what scent to use what herbs to use for you know water to to block with what does the person that i'm making this cowl for need if you don't know you can pull a card and say okay this is for power they need power they need you know release or they need freedom we use divination for the spells to guide us on our spell work to guide us on our magic to get us in our making so divination is a really key part of a lot of the magic and a lot of the things we use so it can help guide us when we're not sure of our own unconscious or what's guiding us i think that's an important aspect to whatever we're doing yes and even for mundane purposes which we know are also magical it's just a great decision-making tool like it doesn't have to be a quote woo like if you just need help deciding between this and that guess what pictures on cards will help you figure out how you feel because even if it says an answer you don't like guess what now you know you don't like it so exactly reflect it's like saying where are we going to go for dinner suddenly you don't have an opinion until jim said he wants indian food and you're like well i don't want indian food i want sushi well good job now you know speaking of divination yes shall we pull a card i'm going to surprise you yay i'm going to pull a card out of this bag oh my gosh very excited yes speaking of rooms yes this is a cosmic whisper rune deck by ko karina let's see what card we get so here here's the question yeah okay how will a form of divination present itself to us this upcoming week here it comes this is lagos the water lagos is the letter l it's the origin of the letter l in english the meaning is water the symbolism is the unconscious mind emotion love dreaming ocean life energy evolution as life itself started in water this rune invites you to discover and explore the depths of your unconscious mind as well as your honest connection with others to the north the ocean represented also wild forces ones that if we're not respected could lead to destruction while discovering the depths of our unconscious mind lagus challenges us to face our fears and insecurities in order to grow stronger and come alive when fighting with the ocean so i love this so the question is how will a form of divination present itself to us in the upcoming week look for that in our unconscious in our intuition in our emotions maybe even exploring a form of uh divination that uses water could be or fog or you know steam or something in the again hydromancy world could be helpful to explore this week yeah for sure you could use it very literally as in look into the water look at the sun on the water you can look at different forms of of divination that act use literal water you could use it symbolically which is the idea of water as a form of emotions and as as the symbolism of our emotions of our intuition it's also interesting that um we're in this time of everything's in aries we have this stellium in aries and you can look at the water as what is counter to that or what is balancing that clouds are also a great place to do um you know neblemancy or as it said here nephomancy is by looking at the clouds so wonderful things to look at so i hope that's inspiring yes and if you have any insight or if anything appears to you over the week drop us a line we now conveniently have a way for you to do that on our website knittispell.com or you can just drop us an email at [email protected] we've had some people record a video and send us a link to that send us an email you can do any of those things we love it well jim thank you for all of your insight into this episode and this topic specifically i'm very inspired to go make a new divination tool knit me some runes i think i might yeah maybe that will help me connect with them better well thank you everyone for joining us and we'll see you next time see you then thanks thanks for listening if you enjoyed the show consider sharing it with a friend leaving your review on itunes and spotify or following knit a spell on instagram you can also subscribe to the light from lantern youtube channel to enjoy full episodes of knit a spell and see our happy faces you can also learn more about ratings classes and events going on with your favorite maker of magic james devine by visiting thedivinehand.com and subscribing to his newsletter then follow jim's fun and interactive instagram account at divine hand gym keep up with katie the magical maker by subscribing to her newsletter at lightfromlantern.com you'll even receive a free knitting pattern as a thank you gift then follow katie on instagram lightfromlantern for even more magical making tips see you next week
you
